"God does not exist, and he is a monster." Say What?!

...SSL: Everyone is equally immersed in sin and all deserve justice. God is under no obligation to grant mercy to anyone. That He chooses to save some out of the common mass of humanity does not require Him to save all. Some get mercy - some get justice. Nobody gets injustice.

BS: You are just trying to post hoc justify the monster.

SSL: No. I was merely summarizing Paul's Epistle to the Romans in one paragraph.

BS: And yet it still does not make God any less of a monster. You and Paul were just trying to rationalize the cognitive dissonance in your mind. You see God is a monster for torturing some and saving others just by his own whim, when he has the power to save them all, so you have to come up with a reason for God letting some people go to Hell. This is the post hoc rationalization you give; it is a means to ease cognitive dissonance. Like GE said, it gets even more twisted the more of God's powers you throw in to the mix. The God of Calvinism is a monster.

GE: Actually the god of Christianity. Only that Calvinists are closer to describing it as such.

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“You and Paul were just trying to rationalize the cognitive dissonance in your mind.”

It may just be the other way around for those who call God "a monster." Consider this scenario as a possibility :

As each weekend arrives and passes, you* are living in anticipation of the approaching day when you* will be summoned to give a final accounting for your* life, when the complete history of your* actions, words, thoughts and intentions will be on exhibit as evidence to be evaluated by the Righteous Judge. Your* own conscience will be a witness.

In addition to that anticipation, you* harbor contradictory thoughts about your* Creator and Judge. On one hand, you* deny his very being, yet simultaneously you* do acknowledge his being, but only for the purpose of ridicule and making accusations against him. This is a recipe for cognitive dissonance “on steroids.”

How can you* cope with this? Perhaps you* recall the passage from Daniel where the prophet speaks of the resurrection at the time of the end: And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt (Daniel 12:2). C.S. Lewis wrote, “In the end that Face that is the terror or delight of the universe must be turned on each of us either with one expression or the other, either conferring glory inexpressible or inflicting shame that can never be cured or disguised.” You* are unwilling to come to Christ for forgiveness and everlasting life; but you* cannot bear the idea of being an object of shame and contempt for eternity.

So, how do you* handle that? You* project your* own guilt and unrighteousness onto the holy Creator and Judge. There it is. You* have imaged a god who is a monster "as a means to ease cognitive dissonance."

The apostle Paul encouraged believers by telling them that God "...chose us in [Christ] before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved" (Eph. 1:4,5) . But God's Eternal Decree does not bar anyone who wants to be saved by Christ from entering heaven, nor does it force others unwillingly to be saved.

Where there is breath and a heartbeat, there is life; and where there is life, there is hope. Jesus said, "I am the door. if anyone enters through me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture" (John 10:9).

In the words of John Gerstner:

"The "door" is Christ. Anyone may enter it, but the time for repentance is now. Today anyone may enter and be saved. Avail yourself of the means that God has provided - The Word of God, prayer, church, preaching. That is, expose yourself to God's truth and the means of grace He has made available."

and,

"Jesus Christ calls everyone, everywhere to confess his sin and trust in Jesus for his salvation and deliverance."
...
"I call everyone, everywhere to come who will acknowledge his sin and bring his guilt and need to Jesus Christ, and I assure him, without any qualification, that in doing that he will most certainly be saved eternally by the blood of Jesus Christ"

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*('You*' and 'your*' indicate anyone who describes God as a "monster," not BS and GE in particular.)

(The C.S. Lewis quote is from the book, The Weight of Glory.)

(The John Gerstner quotes are from Theology for Everyman, and A Primer on the Atonement.)

A QUESTION ABOUT CALVINISM

Craig,
I have a question for you and Penn about Calvinism that I asked the Calvinist commenters on John Piper's blog about a year ago and never got an answer. (As I think I've mentioned to you, I agree with the Calvinistic emphasis on God's grace but not the determinism.)

During the Great Awakening when George Whitefield and John Wesley preached, many people were saved. Whitefield and Wesley apparently prayed for several hours each day and were very much led by the Holy Spirit while preaching.

This is my question: Were the conversions due to the prayers and Spirit-led preaching, or were there just a disproportionate number of "elect" during that time? That is, did God just choose to soften hearts while these two preached, whereas now He is more inclined to harden hearts when the Gospel is preached? Or is there a correlation between prayer/Spirit-filled preaching and conversions?

The question occurred to me because you said that you have no idea who is elect and who is not. Of course this is true to both Calvinists and Arminians--photosynthesis could be the next Augustine for all we know. But apart from the fact that God is omniscient and has always known who will ultimately be saved, is it carved in stone? We know that Augustine's mother Monica prayed for him far more than most mothers pray for their children, so in my mind that had a lot to do with him being saved. "God desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy 2:4).

Even after I read Piper's blog for several months (and reading Future Grace) it was not at all clear to me what the Calvinistic position is on this question, so I'd be interested in your thoughts. I'd also like Penn's thoughts.
___Anette

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Very good questions.

 First, I will make one clarification of something Anette said. There is a difference between the concept of "determinism" and the Reformed doctrines of "election" and "predestination ." While they are alike in some respects, there is an important difference. Election (and reprobation) proceed from the "eternal decree" of a holy and wise God whose ways are beyond our finding out (Romans 11:33-36). Determinism can be illustrated in the ancient Greek myth of Oedipus Rex. Although Oedipus was foretold by the Oracle at Delphi that he was destined to kill his father and marry his mother, no amount of care or effort on his part could prevail to avoid the pre-determined outcome. Now, there is no "oracle" involved in the determinism that is inherent in today's materialistic world view, but each event is only the latest effect in a series of impersonal causes. (Some say that it is an infinite series.)

Some people think the Christian doctrine of election and reprobation is just like that, sort of a "you're damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation. This is not the case. It is true that Scripture reveals that there are the elect, individuals whom God has "chosen from the foundation of the world." ( Ephesians 1:4-5 and  2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 ) This is a great comfort to those who have trusted Jesus for their salvation and eternal life. But we have been given no advanced knowledge about which people are elect. Therefore, the church is to preach the gospel to everyone, everywhere, calling them to: "come to Jesus, acknowledging your sin and guilt, and trusting him for salvation, and in doing that, you will most assuredly receive forgiveness and eternal life by virtue of Christ crucified for sinners." So, you are damned if you don't, but are certainly not damned if you do come to Jesus the Savior. You are wonderfully saved.

We are getting closer to Anette's questions, but there is something else that needs to be established in order to give context to the answer, and that is How God Brings About Conversion.

God applies His saving grace by the operation of the Holy Spirit (John 3:1-8) through the word or ministry of reconciliation; (2 Cor. 5:18-19) which is the gospel concerning Christ, by means whereof it has pleased Him to save such as believe (1 Cor. 1:21)...(Canons of Dort III & IV Art. 6)

The means which God has ordained to be the seed of regeneration is the preaching of the gospel. (Isa. 55:10-11; 1 Cor. 1:21; James 1:18; 1 Peter 1:23, 25; Romans 10:13,14,15,16,17)

So, Anette's questions:

Were the conversions due to the prayers and Spirit-led preaching, or were there just a disproportionate number of "elect" during that time? That is, did God just choose to soften hearts while these two preached, whereas now He is more inclined to harden hearts when the Gospel is preached? Or is there a correlation between prayer/Spirit-filled preaching and conversions?

The Calvinist's answer is, "Both." We have seen above that God has ordained preaching as the means of conversion. Also, Christ has taught us in the "Lord's Prayer" what things God is pleased with and will hear. The second petition, "Thy kingdom come" certainly includes praying for the increase of His church through salvation of souls.

Scripture tells those that have come to Christ for salvation (e.g. Wesley and Whitefield's hearers, and Augustine) that God the Father has chosen them in Christ from before the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 1:3-4 ), and that they have been saved and called with a holy calling, not according to their works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to them in Christ Jesus before time began (2 Tim. 1:9). They see that they never could have come to Jesus unless the Father had drawn them (John 6:44).

History shows that there are times and places in which  a greater number of people are being saved than in other times and places. That seems to be happening right now in China and on the African continent.

"...And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed" (Acts 13:48)